We conducted an interview with Baroness Mary Goudie on her political journey and international women’s solidarity.
Baroness Goudie has been a Labour peer since 1998 and an advocate for the rights of women and children. Her work focuses on promoting gender equality, women’s rights and peacebuilding globally. Among her many accomplishments and affiliations, she is an advisory board member for the London School of Economics – Centre for Women, Peace and Security and an advisor to the Georgetown Institute for Women, Peace and Security. She is also a founding member of the 30% Club, which aims to influence chairs to bring more women on to corporate boards. In a moment when there is a need to build further solidarity in the face of the challenges encountered by women’s rights activism around the globe, we are delighted to have Lady Goudie with us.
We wanted to start our conversation with your experiences in entering politics and your role in local government. How was it like to be a woman working in Brent Council? In your biography, it is stated that in 1971, you became the youngest woman elected to Brent Borough Council. Your activism included Campaign for a Housing Aid Centre and a Law Centre. What were the main events of the day back then, and how did these issues correspond with a gender outlook?
I decided to run for the Council in the 1970s because I have been involved in politics as a young socialist. My parents are Irish; they come from the South. What I learnt from home were equality and inclusion. I was shattered about how, in some parts of the Borough that there was terrible housing. In London at that period, families lived in poor conditions; many of them lived in one room properties. When I joined the Council, I was involved in housing immediately; it became my key issue area. Our Borough also had a high number of cot deaths (the known name for sudden infant syndrome). There were a lot of side issues going on. You had Black riots in Notting Hill, we did have discrimination against Jews as well. It was never quiet.
These issues continue today, and even though we think we solved them when we get crises like COVID or the financial crises, it takes back some of the advancements that are achieved. Some of the things I did in the Council was housing, getting a new school in the area. I represented and was involved in transferring people from council estates to other estates so those places can be refurbished. These were contentious issues because some people wanted to return as they had families in those areas, but I had a lot of support from my colleagues on this topic. When I joined the Council, there were people from Eastern Europe and Central Europe. A number of people came to Brent, Willesden, Harrow and settled here in North London. It was pretty multicultural at that time as well. It can be said that it made life enjoyable in relation to an all ‘white male situation.’
I probably had underlying discrimination, but you always did not pick it up. It is important to remember that in London there was a lot of women out there. I was selected by my ward and the Post Office Union which was a male-dominated union. I had their support, and they were protective in a very nice way. In terms of reflecting on experiences there might have been cases when some would say things like ‘oh would you know what to do the meeting.’ I would reply stating that I knew what I was doing. There could be instances of patronising behaviour, but it wasn’t habit. One of the things that I had to put up was being attacked for what I believe in. I also had one of my children while I was in the Council. My parents and husband were also very supportive as well. The doors were open for me in my house, you had to work hard but they did not say ‘women does or does not do that’ or ‘you have to get married.’ When you come from a family with openness, you can find ways to struggle for improving things.
Secondly, I wanted to ask a broad question on how your work in the House of Lords has been instrumental in promoting the women’s agenda. How has your role in transnational bodies and as the All-Party Parliamentary Equality Group’s vice-chair created an impact?
I use my position in the House of Lords as a global role. I was privileged to join Vital Voices as it came out from the White House in the late 90s. This was a time when I was just starting with the House of Lords. I was also doing work in Northern Ireland voluntarily. I have met many people from Vital Voices and people like Monica McWilliams on the ground. I saw that the House of Lords appointment and privilege was that you could make a change. I have worked in the local government, I have worked a lot in the Labour Party to make it electable, I focused on respect, human and women’s rights. When I came to the House of Lords, I aimed to use the empowerment that was given to me towards change. We have to work on the Gender Gap and have more women on boards, both domestically and globally. We have to have respect for women globally, which is still not reached. Of course, in the UK, we had the Equal Pay Act, and for that, I would recommend the film Made in Dagenham. Everything was not perfect, but you had role models to look up to, like the women in trade unions. You also had some women who did not want to deal with women’s issues. I decided to ignore that because it would make me barmy. Of course, you were hurt by that attitude from some of your colleagues but also across the divide. You have to find a way to rise from that and get on with the issue. Some people asked me questions like ‘why are you staying for this debate’, yet it mattered for me to stay. Some people think that we have made it, no we haven’t. We cannot make it without the others and safeguarding it for future generations.
The Conventions were also an important part of this process. The Convention on Human Trafficking, the conventions in Ireland and how people were treated in prison were some of the issues needed to be taken on. If we only ratify agreements and do not take them on, nothing will happen. Getting the Convention on Human Trafficking, both the UN Convention and Council of Europe’s Convention, was a crucial step as they were very strong. Also, this was a cross-government issue, so it was essential to get support at the ministerial level and at the cabinet-level to make those changes. Otherwise, they would not happen.
Could you tell us a bit more on your Northern Ireland experiences ? The Good Friday Agreement was possible with the leadership of Labour. Were you involved in the peace process or the aftermath?
I was involved early on and then I became the patron of the Community Foundation for Northern Ireland. At that time it’s responsibility apart from working with groups on the ground was the cohesive fund from the European Commission. One of the primary goals of the Community Foundation was to ensure that the money is spent properly. I worked with them over 15 years until there was a change when things calmed in Northern Ireland. By working there we were able to bring the government, the minister of Northern Ireland, whoever the junior ministers were, civil servants, pupils on the ground and have meeting with them on a regular basis. The Labour government and the American involvement that continued made it possible to work on crucial issues. We were able to bring people to the table and this was important because if you can’t have any peace if everyone’s not round the table. If you don’t keep on talking there won’t be any change.
We would like to ask you a question about Vital Voices as our founder is a fellow of the organisation. In your role you have been involved in training community and business leaders and parliamentarians on social and political issues around the world. Can you tell us what Vital Voices does and how it builds transnational solidarity?
When I was invited to join the Global Vital Voices, it had just come out of the White House. It is one of the few organisations that came out from the White House to survive different administrations. It had great leadership since its inception. Hillary Clinton has always been there in the background. Alice Nelson who is the director and the founder, she was with us from the beginning. They had a great board from the start with great leadership. The idea of training women was the best thing they did. I went to South Africa, Eastern Europe, Jordan, Turkey and ensured to set up Vital Voices chapter in Poland and in other parts of the World.
The training was crucial and that work has spearheaded other organisations. The chapters of the organisation give support to each other. The network is key. The network is always there. You can always go to Vital Voices. The impact of the network is very difficult to measure with a metric.
Lastly, as you are aware, there is a struggle rising against Turkey’s withdrawal from the Istanbul Convention and other right-wing governments throughout the world. We wanted to ask you how you think the international community can support women’s movements in light of these recent developments? How can transnational advocacy that seeks to address these issues be stronger and more successful?
Our government has put pressure on the Turkish Government. Other world leaders can also pressure in G-7 and D-10. I cannot understand why they are so afraid of women in power. Why can’t they understand that we are 50 percent of the population and are entitled to our rights? I believe it is a measure of insecurity. We know that advancements like this hurt women and can ruin their lives forever.
The women’s movement can build closer links to the global G-20, G-7 and the D-10 and that is why with the 30% Club we have decided to use this link in the chapters that we have formed. We thought that once these meetings came up, we can put pressure on those states, similarly to the Women’s Forum for Economic Stability based in Paris. When Obama was president of the G-7, he was able to push the access to finance for women. This work has been carried out for some time before him, but that happened under his leadership. It takes courage to put forward these agendas in the same way William Hague as the foreign minister with Clinton took forward the women at the peace table, sexual violence in conflict and got that signed in the UN. Besides the work in the background, it is about having senior people to take it forward.
Begüm Zorlu